OFFSITE: Religion's miracle lies       OFFSITE: Religion harms

OFFSITE:Catholicism is Untrue

 

EVIDENCE THAT CHRIST NEVER DIED ON CROSS

DID JESUS WALK OUT OF TOMB?

 

Even many of the sceptics hold that Jesus was a healer and hold that he may have had strange but natural abilities.  The gospels speak a lot about Jesus' healings.  Curiously they seem more anxious to verify them than the resurrection of Jesus.  They get a bigger focus.  If the stories are true, then it means that we can shut the mouths of those who say that Jesus rose from the dead.  It means we are dealing with a man who may have faked the resurrection using extraordinary powers.   Indeed that is what we should think for the resurrection evidence is poor in comparison to the evidence for the healings.

   Jesus was not seen rising from the dead.  He is even presented as disguising himself after the resurrection which is surely strange behaviour for a man who had supposedly been turned into a magical being by the resurrection. Instead of explaining to the witnesses of the resurrection that his body is a real body with magical properties he uses tricks like eating fish to supposedly make this point.  That would only confuse them.  He was too real.

   Jesus could have been using yogic techniques and healing powers on himself to survive the crucifixion and heal rapidly and get strong enough to escape the tomb.  The Roman Catholic Church reports thousands of cases of people who despite all the odds get better very quickly and in an amazingly short space of time every year.  But because such cases are not instant and it makes no sense to imagine God doing a miracle of healing without it being instant the Church does not recognise such occurrences as miraculous.   There you have it.  The extraordinary can happen and still not be a miracle. 

  Jesus might have been laid to rest by people who were sure he was dead whereas he was still alive and got out of the tomb and met the disciples afterwards believing himself that he had risen from the dead.

    A person not breathing was assumed to prove that they were dead up to a few centuries ago (page 89, The Turin Shroud is Genuine).  But it does not.

    Val Grieve argues that Jesus could not have been buried alive for the Romans would have ensured with special care that this could not happen for he was their most important criminal for they would die for it if they didn’t (page 12, Verdict on the Empty Tomb).  But what more could they do than go by the seeming cessation of breathing?  And the Gospels say that Pilate did not even want Jesus dead.  If true, then the soldiers would have taken less care.  If the Romans could be bribed to lie about what they did at the tomb they could have been bribed to falsely certify that Jesus was dead.

    There is no evidence that if Jesus survived the cross he would have bled to death in the tomb.  The wounds need not have been that serious.  The cloths would have functioned as bandages and the sticky ointments would have stopped the blood and been antiseptic.  But even without them he could have been okay.

    Jesus could have walked despite his wounded feet for he had to walk for his life.  That would have made him switch off the pain.  There is no evidence for nails having been driven through them anyway.

    His tacky wrappings might not have stuck to him like superglue especially if he was sweaty, dirty and bloody so he could have slipped out of them easily.  He had plenty of time to get them off and he had to for they were an encumbrance.  Jesus was buried in haste for the Sabbath was close so he might not have been well wrapped up in the bandages.  He must have left the tomb naked or if the burial was just before nightfall on Friday because of the Sabbath which started on Friday night there could have been unused cloths in the tomb that he could have worn.  There were plenty of clothes hanging out to dry for him to take.  Jesus had to get help so nakedness would not have made him unable to leave the tomb.

    The stone could have been moved by the earthquake Matthew mentions – Matthew does not say how the angel moved the stone so he may have thought the angel caused the earthquake to shift it.  Jesus might have hid when the women looked in and left when the coast was clear.  Jesus could have moved the stone himself for sometimes you can shift a heavy stone more easily with a lever.  And there is no evidence that the stone was that heavy.  It would have been like a round flat flag stone.  Read Spotlight on the Empty Tomb.

    Magdalene must have seen Jesus, if that was who it was, with a hoe or something when she mistook him for the gardener (John 20:15).  When he had such a tool it is suspicious especially that early in the morning.  He was either leaning on it or he had used it to get out of the tomb or both.  The gardener would have been probably an employee of Joseph who owned the tomb and could have been in the habit of putting his implements inside the tomb.  It is doubtful that the stone was heavy.

   The Jews did not close tombs properly for the first three days in case the person would revive (page 89, The Turin Shroud is Genuine).  They would have done this especially in the case of Jesus if they thought he could raise the dead and heal.  The stone for the tomb of Jesus would have been in place well enough to keep animals out but Jesus could have got out.  Or maybe he called out to a passer-by through an opening who knowing that nobody would ever know that he helped Jesus out of the tomb after moving the stone and gave him some clothes helped him.  But if everybody was sure there was no hope for Jesus the tomb might have been sealed completely.  But then why seal the tomb completely if the women were coming on Sunday morning?  Hoare says that the bereaved occasionally employed people to watch the tomb for them in case the person would come round (page 89, The Turin Shroud is Genuine).  But the Gospels imply that this was not done with Jesus when Matthew says Roman guards were needed and when he and the rest say the women worried about getting the stone moved.  The watchers might have helped Jesus out of the tomb.  Perhaps the Romans let them do the close watching while they just pranced about the area.  By the way, the watchers would not have stayed inside the tomb to watch for the Jews thought that the tombs were religiously unclean.  Ordinary Jews would have watched the tomb.  The Romans would not have watched if they did for the watchers were near enough to the city to summon them at the first sign of trouble – it is possible that if the Jews got a guard that the guard was never intended to be very near the tomb all the time (a possibility that refutes the view that if Matthew is telling the truth about the guards then Jesus could not have been stolen and shows that Matthew failed to be convincing).  The watchers would have probably been friends of Jesus and picked and paid by the filthy-rich Joseph of Arimathea and would have been happy to help Jesus to safety or steal his body and tell the Jews they fell asleep and some disciples stole Jesus.

    If there were Roman Guards at the tomb they might not have been looking when Jesus got out or were allowed to sleep when the watchers took over.  The noise of the stone shifting would have been ignored for they were near the city and there was plenty of noise.  Matthew tells just that the guards were careless even with regard to their own lives for the Jews could have had them accused of stealing the body when they were told that Jesus had vanished and a magic man appeared.

    If Jesus got out himself and the guards found him they might have taken Jesus to Joseph of Arimathea who had taken responsibility for the tomb.  And even more so when he represented the Sanhedrin and if they were behind the attempted execution for it was their concern.  He could have bribed them to say nothing and Matthew says they were corrupt.  If Pilate had wanted to save Jesus and made no secret of it though the Jews fanatically hated Jesus, the Romans could not have allowed Jesus to be free for it would look as if Pilate had deliberately bungled the execution for fear of the Jews.  They might have taken him to Joseph on Pilate’s instructions to be concealed and eventually taken out of Palestine.

    If Jesus’ feet left blood marks on the floor of the tomb these could be explained otherwise.  The funeral party had trod on bloody ground or blood dripped off Jesus as he was being interred.  And Jesus’ friends were at the tomb before it could be checked out after Jesus vanished so they might have covered the marks in case they would point to Jesus having escaped. 

    Matthew does not say that anybody saw the stone being moved.  He says that the angel appeared and moved the stone and make the soldiers faint but that is all.  This can fit Mark who says the women came to find the tomb open.  But Matthew is only guessing or interpreting and his interpretation is arbitrary and not binding on us.  Don’t think that the angel moving the rock means that Jesus could not have done it.

    Christians say Jesus would not have been hanging around the tomb if he survived the normal way and was not a supernatural being who had no need to fear anybody.  The gospels never say that he was hanging around but only that he was seen.  He told Magdalene to let him go according to John so he was in a hurry to make himself scarce in case Roman guards would show up.  He didn’t give Mary a sensible reason to let him go.  Jesus could not tell her if he survived non-miraculously in case guards would force the truth out of her.

    The women may have believed that Jesus probably survived when they went to the tomb laden with ointments to anoint Jesus if it had already been done as John says.  They intended to treat his injuries.

    The awful Handbook of Christian Apologetics says that if any Roman soldier let a capital criminal escape they were put to death (page 183).  This is supposed to prove that the swoon theory must be false.  But how do you know that nobody was put to death?  If the soldiers made an understandable mistake they would have got off.  The Handbook should be arguing that if Jesus rose from the dead making it appear that he had been allowed to escape the soldiers would have been executed.

    It also says that the soldiers were sure Jesus was dead when they did not break his legs which was done to make sure crucifixion victims died and died fast.  If Jesus had been expected to rise again and they did not want that they would have broken his legs to make double sure he would not rise.

   The not breaking the legs could be taken as proof that the soldiers had been slack.  These things happen.  The Handbook seems to think everybody is very reasonable!

   Plus the Handbook does not really believe that the soldiers were incapable of letting a capital criminal go free when it believes the Matthew story that the soldiers were willing to commit the capital offence of accepting bribes to lie about how Jesus vanished from the tomb.

    Jesus allegedly predicted he would rise again as a sign from God.  The problem is that he never actually said how he had risen from the dead or exactly what he meant by this when he showed up after the crucifixion.  We don’t have his testimony that he did indeed rise magically.  The apostles wouldn’t have believed him if he said he had not risen.  Thus efforts to make the resurrection proof for Jesus being this or that are futile.

    The dreadful book, The Resurrection Factor, claims that if Jesus had come round after a faint and this led to the resurrection story then this would be far more miraculous than a resurrection (page 120).  But at least it is naturally possible.  Strange things do happen and more easily than miracles do.  They are more probable than miracles therefore if something could be a world record it should be taken to be one rather than to be a miracle for you must only believe in miracles when they are the only explanation.  This silly book would have us believe that people have never mistaken dreams and shadows for ghosts!  As we have seen, Catholicism studies thousands of alleged miracles every year that comprise rapid healings but which are dismissed as non-miraculous though real for a true miracle of healing is not rapid but instant.

 

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Conclusion: Christians insist that Jesus could not have got out of the tomb in his condition.  Yet they contradict this by saying he had healing powers.  They should not be so confident then that he really came back from the dead.  He could have put himself in a healing trance and was mistaken for dead.  Then he lied that he rose.

 

WORKS CONSULTED

 

Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible, John W Haley, Whitaker House, Pennsylvania, undated

Conspiracies and the Cross, Timothy Paul Jones, Front Line, A Strang Company, Florida, 2008

Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Vol 1, Josh McDowell, Alpha Scripture Press Foundation, Bucks, 1995

Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli, Monarch, East Sussex, 1995

In Defence of the Faith, Dave Hunt, Harvest House, Eugene, Oregon, 1996

In Search of Certainty, John Guest Regal Books, Ventura, California, 1983

Jesus and the Four Gospels, John Drane,ion Books, Herts, 1984

Jesus Lived in India, Holger Kersten, Element, Dorset, 1994

Jesus the Evidence, Ian Wilson Pan, London 1985

Mind Out of Time, Ian Wilson, Gollanez, London, 1981

Mother of Nations, Joan Ashton, Veritas, Dublin, 1988

The Bible Fact or Fantasy? John Drane, Lion Books, Oxford, 1989

The Encyclopaedia of Bible Difficulties, Gleason W Archer, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982

The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh & Henry Lincoln, Corgi, London, 1982

The Jesus Conspiracy, Holger Kersten and Elmar R Gruber, Element, Dorset, 1995

The Jesus Inquest, Charles Foster, Monarch Books, Oxford, 2006

The Messianic Legacy, Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh & Henry Lincoln, Corgi, London, 1987

The Metaphor of God Incarnate, John Hick, SCM Press Ltd, London, 1993

The Passover Plot, Hugh Schonfield, Element Books, Dorset, 1996

The Resurrection Factor, Josh McDowell, Alpha Scripture Press Foundation, Bucks, 1993

The Resurrection of Jesus, Pinchas Lapide, SPCK, London, 1984 

The Truth of Christianity, WH Turton, Wells Gardner, Darton & Co Ltd, London, 1905

The Turin Shroud is Genuine, Rodney Hoare, Souvenir Press, London, 1998HoarHo

The Unauthorised Version, Robin Lane Fox, Penguin, Middlesex, 1992

The Vatican Papers, Nino Lo Bello, New English Library, Sevenoaks, Kent, 1982

The Virginal Conception and Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Raymond E Brown Paulist Press, New York, 1973

The Womb and the Tomb, Hugh Montefiore, Fount – HarperCollins, London, 1992

Verdict on the Empty Tomb, Val Grieve, Falcon, London, 1976 

Who Moved the Stone? Frank Morison, OM Publishing Cumbria, 1997

Why People believe Weird Things, Michael Shermer, Freeman, New York, 1997

 

 

BIBLE VERSION USED 

The Amplified Bible 

 

THE WWW 

 

Did Jesus Really Rise from the Dead?  Dan Barker debates Mike Horner. 

www.ffrf.org/debates/barker_horner.html

 

A Naturalistic Account of the Resurrection

http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/~c570529/PhilosoStop/resurrection.html

 

Earliest Christianity, G A Wells, Internet Infidels

www.infidels.org/library/modern/g_a_wells/earliest.html

 

A Resurrection Debate by G A Wells, 

www.infidels.org/library/modern/g_a_wells/resurrection.html

 

Still Standing on Sinking Sand, Farrell Till, 

www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1997/1/1sink97.html

 

Why I Don’t Buy the Resurrection Story, by Richard Carrier

www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/index.shtml

 

The Resurrection by Steven Carr 

www.bowness.demon.co.uk/resr.htm 

 

The Evangelical Apologists: Are They Reliable? Robert Price

www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/beyond_born_again/chap5.html

 

Did Jesus Really Rise from the Dead?  Dan Barker versus Mike Horner  www.ffrf.org/debates/barker_horner.html 

 

Jesus Slept!  This page asks if Jesus could have been doped on the cross meaning that the explanation for the resurrection was that he was never dead. 

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/146%20mandrake.schtml  

 

Beyond Born Again

http://www.infidels.org//library/modern/robert_price/beyond_born_again/chap6.html 

 

Did Early Christians use Hallucinogenic Mushrooms?  Archaeological Evidence.  Franco Fabbro.

http://people.etnoteam.it/maiocchi/fabbro.htm 

 

Blessed Easter

www.mindspring.com/~bab5/BIB/lessons.htm  

 

Craig’s Empty Tomb and Habermas on the Post-Resurrection Appearances of Jesus

www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/indef/4e.html  

 

The Case For Christianity Examined: Truth or Lies? 

www.askwhy.co.uk/awstruth/ChristianCase.html  

 

Challenging the Verdict

A Cross-Examination of Lee Strobel’s The Case for Christ

http://human.st/jesuspuzzle/CTVExcerptsThree.htm#Twelve

     

 13/06/08

 

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